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JEFFV
Posted: Friday, February 22, 2013 6:51:30 PM
Rank: Regular

Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 66
Location: Amelia
Who deleted my thread?
soundmind
Posted: Friday, February 22, 2013 8:09:37 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 6/26/2007
Posts: 201
The world is full of Censorship
JEFFV
Posted: Friday, February 22, 2013 8:43:17 PM
Rank: Regular

Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 66
Location: Amelia
There was no cuss words....well I don't care I know i'm right and so do my friends I got the proof on my phone and a lot of ppl seen the discussion b4 they deleted it and seen what was going on...If he still wants to apologize he still can right here if not then................
Valet
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 9:44:01 AM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/15/2009
Posts: 145
Location: Independence
I don't know Jeff V and I don't know Fred S. That doesn't matter. I did read the thread that was deleted and since I've wasted several minutes of my life that I'll never get back, I'm going to continue down this path of gathering useless information. I guess I just have room in my head for that stuff. Anyway, I gather that Jeff V. is a pretty good disc golfer and considered a "professional"? Jeff V. was so upset a couple years ago that he put twigs and sticks in baskets because he wasn't playing well (which he blames on the fact that he wasn't paired with other pros, but instead was playing w/ rec players causing him to play down to their level)? I need to know how old Jeff V. is...I'll do the math and take 2 years off in order to try to understand the mindset so don't worry about that. Just trying to gain an understanding of why someone would do this...if 10, it adds color to the story. If we're talking adult age, I'm going to have some follow up questions.

Also, do I understand it correctly that Fred S. ran a tourney and didn't pay enough for 4th place? When asked why 4th place wasn't paying more, Fred answered "play better"? If that's accurate, shame on you Fred for not paying more...you should have handed cash from your pocket to anyone who played well enough, in their mind, to deserve (more) cash in their pocket.

I find the question "who deleted my thread" as troubling. I don't think anyone owns it and regardless of the name, I don't even think that Jeff V. started the thread.
Nick_ofTime
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:22:27 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 2/23/2013
Posts: 4
I don't know Valet, but will do my best to answer your questions. you're a bit crossed up on your sequence of events here.. The sticks in the basket and the tourney in which the players were grouped together against the guidelines of the PDGA were different tournaments. This thread started with Jeff mentioning he didn't have a good experience at the tourney where the groups were set improperly, then escalated from there.. It got to the point that Fred decided, I believe correctly so, to move the discussion to a new thread and labeled it Jeff V... Jeff apparently doesn't have the best reputation with 'The Nati' disc golf club and took this opportunity of having a thread with his name on it that he did not create to clear his name in a public forum and try to give the community his side of the story. I was reading along too and felt it was a healthy discussion with all parties involved telling it how they saw it and for the most part trying to be respectful in doing so.. I do think that you're being a bit facetious in asking Jeff's age as you know he's a top professional in the are and I'll concede it's not impossible for a 10 year old to be a top pro in Cincinnati, it's not the case here. Jeff admitted the mistake of putting the sticks in the basket a couple of years ago and says he apologized for the incident. He also said he just wants to have a good time and be positive this year and others have recognized Jeff's change in attitude for the better over the last couple disc golf seasons... For the record I am very good friends with Jeff and I also have a lot of respect for Fred as a Disc Golf Hall of Fame member and someone who does a lot for the sport. They have both probably been a bit unfair to each other at times but I thought a public forum would serve as a perfect place to hash out differences in opinion in the eyes of the community with the opportunity for input from other members of the community. So the question "who deleted my thread" is troubling, you're right! but for me it's troubling that someone took it upon themselves to silence a healthy public discussion.
Nick_ofTime
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 1:05:46 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 2/23/2013
Posts: 4
maybe I haven't properly addressed the second part of your post, which again, is quite a facetious statement. I was at the tourney where the payout was in question.. I was, in fact, Jeff's partner as it was a doubles tourney we took 4th place in. After the first round we were informed by what seemed a reliable source(I don't remember the gentleman's name but I'm pretty sure he was involved in helping Fred with the tournament) that 4th place would pay $200.. after the round when we were announced as 4th place and went up to receive our pay we found that it was $140 for us to split instead of $200, when Jeff inquired as to why it was $140 now instead of the $200 the answer he got was 'Play better next time'.. for me his inquiry was valid but poorly timed. It was probably a bit reactionary. but the fact remains that there had been miscalculations in the past about the payouts from tournaments ran by 'The Nate', albeit they were during Tuesday night singles which are far less formal.. I will digress for now and give you the opportunity for your "follow up" questions.

if any of this ^^ is incorrect, please correct me... "it's nice when someone confirms you are correct, but when someone can prove that you are incorrect then they have truly given you a gift of Truth and Knowledge" and I will thank you for such a gift.
alex.e
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 1:34:49 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/13/2012
Posts: 215
Location: Batavia
Jesus Christ...I started playing disc golf partly because the people i met while playing, laid back and all about having fun. I am not taking sides at all and really don't care to learn more of this situation...all i can say is leave the ego in the car and have fun throwing some discs...All this back and forth really makes the cincinnati scene look pretty childish and honestly i'm embarrassed for all involved.
Nick_ofTime
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 1:58:27 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 2/23/2013
Posts: 4
You're right, Alex, and I like to think that I'm one of the most laid back and fun loving players on the course.. but in all walks of life there are disputes and differences of opinion. You can either bottle it up and hold a feeling of resentment towards those you disagree with or you can try to talk it out. What's wrong with talking it out? A lot of problems in this world could be solved if people were more willing to talk it out and mend relationships from the individual level to the global level because in the end we all want the same thing... to be happy.
Jay Dub
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:00:52 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2009
Posts: 120
Location: Fairfield
Who was the person that told them 4th place would be $200?
You said it wasn't Fred. I know who was helping Fred with the doubles tournament and that guy, if he is the one that said $200, had no idea what was going on. I know this because other things happened at that tournament, this person was asked and even though he didn't know the answer he gave one anyway. And that was wrong. I witnessed this myself because I am the one that gave the correct answer.

Blame that person for the $200 misunderstanding, no one else.
Nick_ofTime
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:31:26 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 2/23/2013
Posts: 4
there was clearly a miscommunication but this isn't about blaming someone for what happened.. it's about finding resolution and moving forward in Peace. I'm sure these guys could be friends again given the right communication and level of mutual respect.. but that is for them to decide.
JEFFV
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 3:08:39 PM
Rank: Regular

Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 66
Location: Amelia
Valet Nick is right you got your tourneys mixed up....Just to let everyone know i'm not saying Fred should have more money there was plenty and I thank Fred for what he does I just wanted to know why $140 instead of $200 like I was told.. I know who told me am i'm not saying names bc I don't bring ppl down i'm sure they heard wrong, but I just ASK QUESTIONS I didn't say he stole it or should add more money.. Plus I was never given a clear answer untill this week when it happen in October..I never had a bad attitude at the tourney or said anything to make him banned me, but if he wants me to stay away I will but why tell me twice one thru private message two months ago the right way, and then on here the unprofessional way when he already told me.. well I know why but I wont say bc like I said i'm not here to bring ppl down I just want my name cleared bc I didn't do anything bad I've been really good after the twigs and sticks ordeal and everyone knows it that plays with me...I like Fred and don't have problems with him I may question some stuff but i'm not getting nasty or have a bad attitude i'm doing that for my benifit and for other's which is only two issues the one is semi-pro's and pro's for tuesday night becuase we dont have that many pro's or super pro's and I dont want to drive 45 minutes to play agaisnt 3 ppl when I should be playing agaisnt 10-15 ppl..And the payout because I couldn't tell you how many times the payout was wrong with a simple math error on tuesday night,, but I want what is best for me and him and the other ppl in the area...Thanks
Fred Salaz
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:01:17 PM
Rank: Expert

Joined: 2/27/2003
Posts: 1,225
Nick, thanks for your insight and thoughts, very well put. Since I started the thread that got deleted I asked a moderator to delete it. The reason being is that the thread was becoming redundant. I answered all of Jeff's questions but they just kept coming back. There is way too much information to digest in Jeff's comments. If he could simplify what he wants answered I will be happy to answer him. Below are some answers to what I think he's asking.

1. KY State doubles - He was misinformed about the pay out, period. It was never posted at $200.00. It was $140. End of discussion.

2. I talked to Discraft about one of their players selling discs in the parking lot of my shop. They took it from there and all is ok. I'm good with the person that did it. If someone wants to sell stuff in the parking lot I will say something to them but I can't stop them from doing it. It is however, unethical.

3. There have been a couple of times where I screwed up the pay out on league nights but being that I'm not the "sharpest tack in the box" sometimes I make mistakes. Especially when there are lots of guys hanging around waiting to get their money, it's very stressful.

Bottom line is, as a td or running leagues I'm not perfect, no one is. I just try to do the best that I can.

JEFFV
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:55:14 PM
Rank: Regular

Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 66
Location: Amelia
1.ok I was and now I understand

2.ok cool just not cool to call discraft on a friend for giving away or selling 1 disc but that's between u two I just think that is kinda shady since i'm good friends with both but u do what is best for you..

3.ok it happens no biggie that's why i'm here to help make sure it's right and make sure everyone is happy I bet it is stressful and thanks for doing what u do I really appreciate it!

4. Last question I would like answered for my benefit and others...In the future for the leagues are you still going to have a semi-pro and a regular pro or just one pro divison? I don't care it just seems to be a little unfair for the pro's because most of the time the semi-pro's are walking away with more money and there are also no people in open and like 15 semi-pro's so prolly be better to just combine them plus we don't have any super pro's..Also it's not about the money though it's about reward and making people better and paying off the people who have work hard to get where they are..Thanks

5. Also I would like an apology on here I feel like my name has been talk down for no reason I've done nothing wrong...If that happens I will have full respect for you again...You had a lot going on that day and prolly thought I was saying u stole the money well that wasn't the case I just wanted to know becuase other ppl told me it was $200 which u didn't know other ppl were telling me the wrong things so I could see why u would be mad plus u work soooo hard to run these tourneys that's the last thing you want to hear, but to banned me and put it on here makes no sense so I think I deserve an apology..Thanks

6. Fred i'm sorry for what i've done to make you not like me but im just trying to help out I'm on your side man! Think about all the good times we've had in the past there is no hate between us two think about it! We are just getting the wrong reads off each other..I like what you do I really do! So let's just squish the problem so we can be friends again! Thanks
Fred Salaz
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:27:16 PM
Rank: Expert

Joined: 2/27/2003
Posts: 1,225
JEFFV wrote:
  4. Last question I would like answered for my benefit and others...In the future for the leagues are you still going to have a semi-pro and a regular pro or just one pro divison? I don't care it just seems to be a little unfair for the pro's because most of the time the semi-pro's are walking away with more money and there are also no people in open and like 15 semi-pro's so prolly be better to just combine them plus we don't have any super pro's..Also it's not about the money though it's about reward and making people better and paying off the people who have work hard to get where they are..Thanks

Jeff, it is tough for the guys caught in between , the guys that are better than Advanced but not as good as you Open players(there really is only a handful of you).  They have enough discs so they don't want to play for product but they don't want to donate every week either, which is what they would be doing.  To answer your question, no more semi pro.  No more pro division either.  Tuesdays are going to be handicapped league again with everyone starting from scratch.  Everyone has to requalify(have a score at Mt Airy).  You were the only one who complained last year, other wise it was going well.


5. Also I would like an apology on here I feel like my name has been talk down for no reason I've done nothing wrong...If that happens I will have full respect for you again...You had a lot going on that day and prolly thought I was saying u stole the money well that wasn't the case I just wanted to know becuase other ppl told me it was $200 which u didn't know other ppl were telling me the wrong things so I could see why u would be mad plus u work soooo hard to run these tourneys that's the last thing you want to hear, but to banned me and put it on here makes no sense so I think I deserve an apology..Thanks 6. Fred i'm sorry for what i've done to make you not like me but im just trying to help out I'm on your side man! Think about all the good times we've had in the past there is no hate between us two think about it! We are just getting the wrong reads off each other..I like what you do I really do! So let's just squish the problem so we can be friends again! Thanks


I don't think I need to apologize.  I haven't done anything to apologize for, well, maybe the "play better" comment but your timing couldn't have been worse.  If anything this thread has helped you explain your thoughts and more people understand who you are now.  I can't ban you from pdga events but I'm asking you to take some time off from Nati events and when things have cooled down then you are more than welcome to participate.  Jeff, I don't dislike you and I truly respect your disc golf game but in the future please take some time to think about what you say on these forums.  
JEFFV
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:06:12 PM
Rank: Regular

Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 66
Location: Amelia
1. Thanks for answering the question about the divisons on tuesday nights..First of all I wasn't complaining I was just questioning to know why there was a semi-pro and a pro not complaining..the reason why I was the only one that question it is becuase I go every tuesday and drive 45 minutes to get there to find out semi-pro's are getting more money, and I felt like I was not gettting rewared and other pro's weren't either for being good, but not a big deal it's all been solved..Handicapped is the way to go and gl with that this year!
 
2.I think I do deserve an apology becuase What have I done to say i'm banned on the message board when you already told me thru the private message on fb to stay away?? I have done nothing wrong execpt ask thru private message why the payout was $140 instead of $200 I thought the math might have been wrong..You unfriend me and told me to stay away :/ I got the messages save on my phone and you know that happen and so do some of my friends...I will give you another chance Fred to apolgize.  You be apologizing for saying i'm banned on the message board when you already told me b4 thru fb..If you want to banned me that's fine it's prolly for the best we stay away for a little, but to do it the way you did it is unprofessional and what I did to get banned is just plain crazy anyways I've had a good attitude, but it's for the best that we stay away anyways..Apololgy would be nice so we can be friends in the future! :)
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