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2009 Course Challenge Series Options
Ben Shooner
Posted: Friday, January 30, 2009 7:49:17 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/16/2003
Posts: 248
I don't see the poll
AdamJ
Posted: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:27:53 PM

Rank: Expert

Joined: 5/22/2005
Posts: 1,212
Location: Nati
Whats wrong with usin the rule must have 4 people to have a division? Keep in mind that the larger a division is the more cash is available for payout and said payout can run deeper which should equal better chances.
discndat
Posted: Saturday, January 31, 2009 10:29:52 AM

Rank: Expert

Joined: 3/1/2003
Posts: 1,512
Just so everybody knows, you do have to be logged in to see the Poll. I know sometimes I don't log in - I just come on here real quick to see if anything important is on here. If you do that you don't see the Poll.  I've combined the Masters/GM's in both Pro and Am for the Icebowls just to see for myself how it might go and thusfar have heard no complaints and we have had larger divisions, naturally.  

On a side note, I have always been in favor of the PDGA going to 50 for the Masters Division. I've said that since I was first playing and I started playing as a Master in Pro back in 1990, not Am. But, I will play where I can within the rules. The most difficult thing for all of this is going back and changing things. Once you have been able to play a certain division at 40, it's hard to change it to 50.  PDGA did that once when the age limit went from 35-40, 45-50, etc. It would have been better to start out the other way. Ok, rambling again. See ya.
mikekem
Posted: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:58:35 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 2/16/2008
Posts: 400
Location: Lebanon
The issues don't really apply to me and won't for some time so I didn't vote.  The questions have to combining adv grandmasters with advanced masters,  combining open grandmasters with open masters, and increasing womens entry fees and adjusting the womens payout scale. 
andersab
Posted: Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:48:58 PM

Rank: Elite Veteran

Joined: 5/22/2006
Posts: 692
Location: in the chains
AdamJ wrote:
Whats wrong with usin the rule must have 4 people to have a division? Keep in mind that the larger a division is the more cash is available for payout and said payout can run deeper which should equal better chances.


It doesn't have to do with payout at all...

It has to do with the CCS TDs having to manage all those divisions... The switching from GM to Masters and back because of who is in which division (the switching causes lots of re-work)... its about having to put 2 people in one division with another division only to have the two people complain that they had to play with the other division.

Take all those things out of it and just make it a solid day of disc golf.
AdamJ
Posted: Sunday, February 01, 2009 6:49:33 AM

Rank: Expert

Joined: 5/22/2005
Posts: 1,212
Location: Nati
I know that Brad and I agree with what ya added. What I said about the payout is a benefit that most people overlook. We waste alot of time because we try and cater to each individuals needs instead of doing all we can for the better of the group. We all know that you can't please everyone, there's always gonna be someone or a few that disagree with how things are ran no matter what we do. I believe we just need to do the best we can for the majority unless those that run these events don't mind the extra work and criticism.
Ben Shooner
Posted: Monday, February 02, 2009 4:13:56 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/16/2003
Posts: 248
I agree with having less divisions, but don't play in any of these mentioned. I'd be curious to know what masters/GM eligible guys think. It would be nice if you could only score series points for one division per year..this would avoid a lot of confusion and goofy year-end results.
L_Stephens
Posted: Monday, February 02, 2009 5:37:41 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 7/6/2008
Posts: 437
Well I'm Masters eligible..and I don't think the GMs have one single problem with taking my money.
2Timer
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:48:33 AM
Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 3/30/2006
Posts: 372
Location: Ameila, Oh
More competition in masters? Hell, I might just change diviions this year!
discndat
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:15:54 PM

Rank: Expert

Joined: 3/1/2003
Posts: 1,512
help  Bring it on Dave - we're ready for you.help
bobherb
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 12:56:44 PM

Rank: Elite Veteran

Joined: 8/10/2004
Posts: 449

There are "NUMEROUS" ways to separate players into divisions.
The only way which divides everyone fairly, regardless of age, is by player ratings.
This is just a first draft/brainstorming version:

Division 1 could be...  990 rated and higher.
Division 2 between...  960 and 990
Division 3 between...  930 and 960
Division 4 between...  930 and 900
Division 5 below...       900

5 divisions..., period.
You are placed into a division at the beginning of the season and stay there for the entire season.
No women's or men's divisions, just 5 ratings divisions.
Perhaps all divisions could pay cash since our tourneys are not PDGA events.
If this $ does interfere with a players amateur status, a gift certificate could be given instead.
Do tourney directors like this idea???

zac
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 1:16:02 PM
Rank: Regular

Joined: 6/18/2008
Posts: 63
the pdga has a system that they use for ratings based events. http://www.pdga.com/documents/divisions-ratings-points-factors
it would go
970+ gold
<970 blue
<935 red
<900 white
<850 green

only the top division gets money, but unsanctioned events can do all cash, the problem here is that the money difference from the ams to the am's merch is where clubs pick up the necessary money to run events, so eliminating a merch payout would make that part difficult.
bobherb
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 1:28:10 PM

Rank: Elite Veteran

Joined: 8/10/2004
Posts: 449
Hi Zac,
I see no difficulty which you refer to... clubs do many things to make a little $, sell discs, shirts, food (thanks to Liz, Dave, T.D's, and many others), collect fees for yearly membership, etc. The GCFDA has rarely, if ever, been strapped for $.
zac
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 1:40:20 PM
Rank: Regular

Joined: 6/18/2008
Posts: 63
yes, if the club and td have no problem with paying out the 100% in cash, you could do it without affecting your pdga status. i know alot of TD's take that extra cash from the cash-to-merch exchange and add it to the pro payout as well. i dont know about cinci courses but some columbus events we have to pay for the use of a park, or get insurance, or pay a cop to be there so we can legally vend, or a number of other things and thats where the 100% cash would hurt a bit. the divisions i gave are the ones that the pdga uses, but you could adjust those if you like, just make sure there is a fair division at the bottom for those that would be nowhere near 900 rated. also you may have to deal with non pdga members which would have no rating.
2Timer
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 4:29:11 PM
Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 3/30/2006
Posts: 372
Location: Ameila, Oh
I do think the PDGA ratings layout is a little more spot on, specially for the lower divisions.
Ben Shooner
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 5:20:47 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/16/2003
Posts: 248
Ratings-based would be the best for PDGA, but the CCS is a little different. A large number of those who play the CCS are not PDGA memebers-nor do they have any desire to be-so they don't have ratings. Also, the CCS caters more to beginners, as it is a good chance to get a taste of competition without the high entry fees or memberships. At the same time, it can offer great competition in that it is a year long series where players are rewarded for playing in every event.

The problem is that some divisions have limited participation. When players in these small divisions switch divisions throughout the year it renders these titles more or less meaningless, and also causes a lot of headaches. I understand choosing divisions based on that day's field-but it would be nice if this did not botch other players' run at the title.
DAMarlow
Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:54:51 PM
Rank: Tree Hukker

Joined: 8/15/2007
Posts: 29
Location: Mason, OH
The 2009 GCFDA Course Challenge Series schedule was determined at last night's club meeting:
March 14 Harbin
April 25 A.J. Jolly
May 30 Oxford
June 27 Monroe
July 18 Idlewild
August 15 Rapid Run
September 12 Turtlecreek
October 3 Mt. Airy
November 7 Lincoln Ridge(formerly Banklick)
nienaber
Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 4:19:20 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/24/2008
Posts: 248
Location: Hamilton
Is November 7th the date of the Englewood C-Tier Dayton event?
I have on my calendar that it is but I may be mistaken
matthew_blakely
Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 4:27:45 PM
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Joined: 2/27/2003
Posts: 488
Nov 7 is the date of the dayton C-tier.
alexh
Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:01:51 PM

Rank: Regular

Joined: 12/22/2006
Posts: 73
Location: Lebanon, OH
April 25 and July 18 are Dayton BID tournaments...
Holly W
Posted: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:04:28 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 229
alexh wrote:
April 25 and July 18 are Dayton BID tournaments...


I don't think it will matter to have the tournaments on the same day:
   *there are only so many dates to have a tournament and there are more tourney's than weekends
   * the people who play PDGA events will choose to travel while those who don't will stay closer to home ( different states)
   * the weather could be an issue this time of year and if it is nasty may be better to stay closer to home

However I do want to clarify that the c-tier is being run in Dayton but is not a "Dayton Club" event. The BID series is ran by the Dayton Club. It takes a good portion of time and effort to set up and run a PDGA event and with that being said I am not sure why the cincy club officers have decided to schedule on the same day since I am a lifetime member of the club and would hope to get the same courtesy as individuals in the cincy club who run PDGA events (did Nick, Dan or Fred get scheduled on top of?)
zac
Posted: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:28:44 AM
Rank: Regular

Joined: 6/18/2008
Posts: 63
yea the ohio pdga schedule is pretty packed. the aug and sept ccs dates are during columbus events (king of the coures and the first marysville event), but with the schedule it looks that it may be somewhat unavoidable.

http://columbusdiscgolf.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7 here is the current state schedule, and there are tons of sanctoned events.
Holly W
Posted: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:45:22 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 229
I am not trying to be confrontational and I respect all decisions made by the cincy club officers because it takes just as much time to put together the series of events
GStrick
Posted: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:15:35 AM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/12/2007
Posts: 116
Location: Westside
Thanks for getting the CCS schedule in writing. Looks like a fun year and not starting at Airy is a welcomed change of pace, at least I think.

Holly's right, "...there are more tourney's than weekends." So there are conflicts with Dayton BIDs and other events, that's going to happen in this sport.

My only question is, why Rapid Run? I am not against it by any means but in a city with so many courses, is it really necessary for a temp course in the schedule? I would like to know how the decision was made. I am kicking myself for not being at the meeting to hear.

thanks for any insight.
discndat
Posted: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:55:34 AM

Rank: Expert

Joined: 3/1/2003
Posts: 1,512
The scheduling is only going to get worse as more courses go in and the clubs get bigger and better.  Cincy, Dayton, C-Bus, Lex and Lville all have gotten so many new courses and members that work to put on good events. I remember when the events that all these cities ran had mostly players from all these surounding cities. Now, there are more locals playing in the events than ever before. It's hard to attend them all, so you have to pick and choose and many times you choose what's closer and more convenient. I think most of us would say it's a better problem to have than not having it.

Gerry, the Rapid Run tourney is a throwback tourney. It was suggested to have it as many people nowadays have never played it and some thought it would be a good idea to play it. This course was used in the '98 Pro Worlds and many CC's back then and is a fun course. We did a throwback tourney at Mt. Echo a few years ago and people seemed to enjoy that one too. No, it definitely wasn't necessary but many thought it would be fun. Just my 1-1/2 cents.
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