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INTERMEDIATE DIVISION 2010 Options
Madmike
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:23:04 AM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 2/4/2009
Posts: 400
HA HA fin i can and will shoot better than you!! give me a month LOL
Erik
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 11:05:11 AM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 212
perica wrote:


And DQ them for it, real golf style.


That would work too, but anytime I have suggested something involving a penalty, people go crazy around here… 

GStrick
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 1:35:25 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/12/2007
Posts: 116
Location: Westside
My two cents:

Add an intermediate division
Add a point based system for tracking what division players play in
Increase the fee to play so we can make the TD a paid position
Give everyone a trophy or disc for playing
DQ players for foul language, obscene behavior, playing in wrong division...
Give everyone a second shot on a CTP hole
An award for best dressed would be nice
Serve lunch at the break of Montgomery Inn Ribs

I would also like to win the lottery but sometimes life isn't fair. If you don't like the division you play in...move up. If you don't like that division, move up. And again, if you can't compete in that division, maybe find a new sport or run your own tournaments.
Phil Miller
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 2:19:31 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 12/12/2003
Posts: 493
Location: Where it gets the hose again.
GStrick wrote:
My two cents: Add an intermediate division Add a point based system for tracking what division players play in Increase the fee to play so we can make the TD a paid position Give everyone a trophy or disc for playing DQ players for foul language, obscene behavior, playing in wrong division... Give everyone a second shot on a CTP hole An award for best dressed would be nice Serve lunch at the break of Montgomery Inn Ribs I would also like to win the lottery but sometimes life isn't fair. If you don't like the division you play in...move up. If you don't like that division, move up. And again, if you can't compete in that division, maybe find a new sport or run your own tournaments.


Priceless! Well said sir.
kmaupin
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 2:39:07 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/5/2004
Posts: 163
Location: Fairfield Township

I do believe the point series should be removed from the novice division.

I just find the logic that Open is pro, Advanced is intermediate and novice is for people new to the sport a little bit of a stretch.

One more division is not that hard, it will make more since in comparison to the PDGA to add an intermediate division.

Having cash divisions and then having Advanced Am, Intemediate Am, and then Novice Am, plus the current age protected divisions.


That is my two cents.


Erik
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 2:44:05 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 212
GStrick wrote:
If you don't like the division you play in...move up. If you don't like that division, move up. And again, if you can't compete in that division, maybe find a new sport or run your own tournaments.


Responses like this are why the CCS struggles to take in new players.  Might as well rename it to the course challenge series open…

Have you noticed most of the people opposed to adding intermediate and player ratings are mainly open players?  Go figure.

mikekem
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:09:14 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 2/16/2008
Posts: 400
Location: Lebanon
Did you notice most of the people who are disagreeing with Intermediate have been doing this longer, take on the administration of running the tournaments and organize all this stuff for the club?

I'm not in open, I'm in Advanced. And what advantage does an Open player get by having a Novice play in Advanced?
Sc0rch3d
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:38:26 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/19/2009
Posts: 158
Location: cincinnati
Erik wrote:


Responses like this are why the CCS struggles to take in new players.  Might as well rename it to the course challenge series open…

Have you noticed most of the people opposed to adding intermediate and player ratings are mainly open players?  Go figure.



youre right, a general sense of smugness.......maybe a touch "clicky". Doesnt register well at all.

For instance, there are people here that make it their business to correct you about your posts....thats insane. Minus being disruptive(which shouldnt be allowed anywhere)who cares. I will tell you who cares, people that arent good enough at the game on their respective cards. You see any top runners on here getting angry about what "our clubs" novice card wants? In all reallity if youre not a novice or support what they want then the discussion wasnt for you....its for the people who support it and want it. Read how the thread startd.  We dont need to be corrected 10 times a day about something we know needs to happen. But we all know misery loves comp, so if your irritated and stagnant in your game dont let it spill over in the way of stand-off-ish-ness. Its apparent now that we have more of a problem than the intermediate issue. This club doesnt NEED new faces and ideas....it HAS new faces and ideas. Effectiveness on our part over these next 2 yrs will determine souly on wether we can shake up the ranks a little and eliminate this sense that people are owed something because they been throwing longer.

with all due respect
Erik
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:41:56 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 212
mikekem wrote:
Did you notice most of the people who are disagreeing with Intermediate have been doing this longer, take on the administration of running the tournaments and organize all this stuff for the club? I'm not in open, I'm in Advanced. And what advantage does an Open player get by having a Novice play in Advanced?


What I have noticed are some of the people who have been doing this longer, running the show, not wanting newer players help and/or opinions.

mikekem
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:51:39 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 2/16/2008
Posts: 400
Location: Lebanon
Erik wrote:


What I have noticed are some of the people who have been doing this longer, running the show, not wanting newer players help and/or opinions.



Never seen you offer help.  But then again I don't know you.  Have you been to a single club meeting to offer help?
Erik
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:16:44 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 212
mikekem wrote:
Never seen you offer help.  But then again I don't know you.  Have you been to a single club meeting to offer help?


Unfortunately I was not lucky enough to have Mondays free until now.  Rest assured I will be at the club meeting on the 8th.  Perhaps we have different ideas on what help really means.
mikekem
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:28:58 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 2/16/2008
Posts: 400
Location: Lebanon
I'm sorry, I was rude there. Let's all sit down to have some food and drink and discuss the ideas.
agentdozzer
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:35:32 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/14/2006
Posts: 293
Just a question what would the extra work be for the td if there was a new division? I know nothing about being a td and am just wondering. I know you would need to write int on there card sort there division after the first round and do the payouts at the end. Really wouldnt be much different than when there are enough people for some of the divisions that are smaller right. Like advanced women isnt always a division but when there are enough particate there is how is this any different than if their was a intermediate division. I mean dayton has one right? This is not a knock on any td's like i said it is just a question from someone who would like to have more knowledge from people that have more than him. Oh yeah still wondering why the second largest division is to small?
mikekem
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 5:02:36 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 2/16/2008
Posts: 400
Location: Lebanon
It isn't that much work assuming it isn't ratings based. But to me it doesn't seem like it will solve anything, just creates another place to bag. If this does happen I don't think novice or intermediate should be part of points series to discourage sticking around those divisions too long.
agentdozzer
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 5:49:42 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/14/2006
Posts: 293
Thanks, I dont think taking the series win will promote moving up as much as it would not making all the events. I dont think we need ratings based divisions, remeber the people that want the intermediate division are novice players that relize they are not novice, they want to move up. Its just we have seen past novice people move up and not place in any tournys so there is no incentive to move up. By incentive I personally am not talking about payouts they have little to do with what division I would choose. The incentive to me would be placing and playing well. The way I envision it is you get most of the novice pool to play intermediate then the novice divsion could be for true beginners.
topherb
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 6:06:17 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 5/20/2009
Posts: 416
Location: 859
Sc0rch3d wrote:


youre right, a general sense of smugness.......maybe a touch "clicky". Doesnt register well at all.

For instance, there are people here that make it their business to correct you about your posts....thats insane. Minus being disruptive(which shouldnt be allowed anywhere)who cares. I will tell you who cares, people that arent good enough at the game on their respective cards. You see any top runners on here getting angry about what "our clubs" novice card wants? In all reallity if youre not a novice or support what they want then the discussion wasnt for you....its for the people who support it and want it. Read how the thread startd.  We dont need to be corrected 10 times a day about something we know needs to happen. But we all know misery loves comp, so if your irritated and stagnant in your game dont let it spill over in the way of stand-off-ish-ness. Its apparent now that we have more of a problem than the intermediate issue. This club doesnt NEED new faces and ideas....it HAS new faces and ideas. Effectiveness on our part over these next 2 yrs will determine souly on wether we can shake up the ranks a little and eliminate this sense that people are owed something because they been throwing longer.

with all due respect
GStrick
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 6:12:34 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/12/2007
Posts: 116
Location: Westside
Great idea Mike. The trophy for Novice is a joke and is counterintuitive to what Novice is trying to accomplish.

The bottom line. If you want an Intermediate division you are scared of competition. What's your argument again, you can't win in advance. How about being part of the solution and practice. Or you could be part of the problem and stay in Novice and bag all you want.

PS - the PDGA has bagging issue even with all thier divisions. Basically, it's up to the players in the sport. How about you man up and play up.
Valet
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 6:30:25 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/15/2009
Posts: 145
Location: Independence
bump (this topic needs one...it's been over 10 minutes!)
Sc0rch3d
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 6:32:29 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/19/2009
Posts: 158
Location: cincinnati
GStrick wrote:
Great idea Mike. The trophy for Novice is a joke and is counterintuitive to what Novice is trying to accomplish. The bottom line. If you want an Intermediate division you are scared of competition. What's your argument again, you can't win in advance. How about being part of the solution and practice. Or you could be part of the problem and stay in Novice and bag all you want. PS - the PDGA has bagging issue even with all thier divisions. Basically, it's up to the players in the sport. How about you man up and play up.


the trophy is sitting in my living room, its not a jokecry
slg6218
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 6:39:15 PM
Rank: Regular

Joined: 8/20/2008
Posts: 60
Not everyone who plays novice is new, or lacks the desire to get better.  I have been playing for 2 years and just don't have the time to practice alot.  I usually find myself in the middle 3rd of the novice field, but I'm okay with that, because I have a good time at the tourneys.  I actually enjoy the second rounds better because I am playing against other people who are there to have fun and not necessarily out to win at all costs.  Believe it or not, some of the open or advanced players are not that fun to play alongside.  They are more interested in winning than enjoying the round.  Although I have to give special kudos to Finnhawk.  I played twice with him last year in CCS Tourneys, and if all the players had his attitude and approach to the game the tourneys would be a great experience for everyone.   That said, some of the folks in novice are clearly better then 95% of the field and those are the folks that are the so called baggers.  So what,  if it's that important to them to win, then what's the harm?  However, if you really want to eliminate these baggers you can make it mandatory for the top 3 or top 5 players in the year end standings for the novice division to move up a division the next year.     
topherb
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:00:32 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 5/20/2009
Posts: 416
Location: 859
Sc0rch3d wrote:


youre right, a general sense of smugness.......maybe a touch "clicky". Doesnt register well at all.

For instance, there are people here that make it their business to correct you about your posts....thats insane. Minus being disruptive(which shouldnt be allowed anywhere)who cares. I will tell you who cares, people that arent good enough at the game on their respective cards. You see any top runners on here getting angry about what "our clubs" novice card wants? In all reallity if youre not a novice or support what they want then the discussion wasnt for you....its for the people who support it and want it. Read how the thread startd.  We dont need to be corrected 10 times a day about something we know needs to happen. But we all know misery loves comp, so if your irritated and stagnant in your game dont let it spill over in the way of stand-off-ish-ness. Its apparent now that we have more of a problem than the intermediate issue. This club doesnt NEED new faces and ideas....it HAS new faces and ideas. Effectiveness on our part over these next 2 yrs will determine souly on wether we can shake up the ranks a little and eliminate this sense that people are owed something because they been throwing longer.

with all due respect
perica
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 8:00:12 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 9/18/2005
Posts: 365
Location: Where it puts the lotion on its skin
agentdozzer wrote:
remeber the people that want the intermediate division are novice players that relize they are not novice, they want to move up. Its just we have seen past novice people move up and not place in any tournys so there is no incentive to move up.  


Some might say that those people need to put in their dues and shouldn't expect to cash the first time that they move up to advanced.  I would certainly hope that the advanced players that move up to open wouldn't expect to cash as soon as they get out there with the big dogs.  It can be a lot easier to shoot a good round with a card of people that you have 10 strokes on than with people who are right in there with you.
mikekem
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 8:36:45 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 2/16/2008
Posts: 400
Location: Lebanon
Perica has a good point here. There is a greater need for a division between Advanced and Pro. The amount of skill between a skilled Advanced player and a seasoned Open player is way bigger than the skill most Novice players have compared to those that play in the Advanced division. Can we expect this argument in 3 years or so when you're too good for advanced but still don't cash in Pro?
Phil Miller
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 8:41:52 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 12/12/2003
Posts: 493
Location: Where it gets the hose again.
I haven't won a tournament since I moved up to Open. I cash occasionally and I am OK with that. Does that mean we should have a division between Advanced and Open? My scores are consistently in the top of Advanced and usually middle of the pack at Open. By the logic I have heard stated here, I would be a bagger if I played Advanced (I've already won it), and I should get a new division because the same people keep winning Open. The way I look at it is this: I play to have fun and compete. I like competing against guys like Cox and Vandermark who play more , care more and take the game seriously. If I didn't have a job and 3 young kids I would probably work on my game more and hence would be more competitive. You can't win all the time, and if you're not competing in the division you play in work on your game. I never won a tournament as Novice and I moved up after 3 tournaments because I wanted to play against better players. For me it was about striving to make my game better.
NatiBuckeye
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:22:38 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 8/13/2008
Posts: 344
Location: Mt lookout
I think most people are missing the point that the PDGA is the only governing body I know of that allows and supports lower skilled players to compete (baseball maybe). The sport supports growth... Why are we against that? Why not support more divisions, competition, and OVERALL money? The "shut up and throw" mentality is so close minded its silly. Suggestions to help make this club better should not be handled this harshly. If you go back and wade through all the standoffish comments alot of good could come out of this thread.

If we need more TD's to make this happen and to grow this sport lets start that thread... I volunteer and lots more would aswell as long as we are helped and not shrugged off.
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