Okay, well my opinion for what it's worth is as follows. :-)

Idlewild has some of the best holes in disc golf and a couple of the most "suspect" holes I have seen. I think it is cool to try some things out and perhaps that is what Fred was doing.? The old placement for hole 3 was much better and is one of the great holes on the course......the pin we played this weekend was a bit crazy and no one in their right mind would go for it. The risk is way to high so what is the point. I also saw two lay ups from Open players from about 80 feet miss the super small green. The old hole is much better and I hope Dan plays it that way for DnD. If he does play the crazy hole, I can't wait to hear the touring pro's opinions! LMAO

As for 16, there is very little skill that can help you on that hole. Maybe you could argue the first 100 feet is skill, but after that it's a total crap shoot. I try to bust a side arm as hard as I can and bail out right with my eyes closed. The farther it goes the better....then the 2nd shot I do the same thing and hope to hit a tree close by. I think my biggest issue with that hole is the extra OB that is added....just play the water or creek's edge and leave it at that.

Fred is right, trees will continue to fall and the course will get easier and I have already noticed that. I only get to play it a few times a year and over the years things have gotten easier on certain holes. The amount of work everyone has put into that course is undeniable and appreciated, we are all very lucky to have it! The course is challenging enough and to add a couple of flukey things in there just takes away from the beauty imo.

Thanks to all involved and I hope the storms didn't do too much damage!

P.S. - For the record, I took a 4 on hole 3 and a 3 on hole 16 this past weekend! :-)

Thanks for posting those videos. Also thanks to Bruce Brakel and his girls for taping them.

I did not make the tournament but played it yesterday. I love it when it all marked. Question: what was the options and penalty if you missed the ky gap and did you play the rough as ob on 15.

Hey Fred, people are entitled to their opinions - and this is healthy discourse.  I decided to try and take a stab at looking how the score spread is for myself, but you listed only 15 hole 3 scores for the 18 open players.  Would you mind re-posting that? 

Average scores for #3: Open - 5.7 with a 10,9,8(pete, no wonder he hates the hole),2-7's, 3-6's, 3-5's, 4-4's.

Hole 16 is skewed positively (in open), but not super-high.  For those non-stats dorks, this means there's a big tail on the distribution extending higher than the mean score and a whole bunch of people stacked up just just under the mean.  The argument can be made that a perfect hole has zero skewness (it can be positive or negative) - that's for another discussion though.

I liked the challenge, I liked most of the course, the work that's gone into it is amazing; but this isn't putt-putt or fantasy video game golf.  Laying up from 30 feet away should not risk going OB.

Mark, Looks like I missed a couple. It looks like you're into statistics. I would like to see what kind of stats you can come up with for this past weekend if you wouldn't mind. The scorecards are at the shop.
All I'm trying to do is challenge you guys. That's all.

Hole 16 is cool and vexing but, I feel that only the creek should be OB. I would adopt a drop zone much like #11 and Extreme #3 for any creek OB up around the basket's peninsula. A thirty footer towards the OB would kill the 'blast it past the green and take a four' shot, which is a good option now.
Extreme 3 would have played much easier without the creek raging. There was way too much luck invovled in Saturdays weather. If you used your brain and tried for an easy four less bad things could happen but, I did see Eades 45 foot third shot jump into the creek. It will make for a brilliant doubles hole as the risk can be mitigated a bit and Abby will hit the putt. :)

Hey Fred, 

Sorry if you thought I was whining, I was just giving my opinion. We all know how many courses I have designed......zero.....so take my opinion for what it's worth. I do agree with Finnegan, those placements are great for a best shot doubles where one person can gun at it and the other can play safe if need be. Maybe we can just agree to disagree on a couple holes! 

That's a worthless goal... wil never happen.  You can't please everyone... everyone doesn't have to play.  Its really not even worth trying to do anymore.  On another note, Drew tries hard to do it.

Other than the weather I really enjoyed the tournament. We did get lucky that the conditions weren't worse than they were especially once the weather rolled in for second round. Call all the OB what you will, but if you really want to challenge your accuracy like I do, than the extra OB is fun to play. I do agree that 16 can be a crap shoot but I normally try to blast it to the short placement and play from there which takes alot of the guessing out but it's still tough. I also agree that hole 3 is a tough placement, but I enjoyed playing it. After taking a trip down to the IDGC in Georgia last year and playing all of the tough courses in Charlotte I can see that more and more areas are putting in courses like Idlewild. Personally I don't think Fred was stroking his ego by making it so hard. If any of you remember Idlewild before it became the manicured course it is today you can appreicate how "easy" it has become. Idlewild used to look like a goat path through the woods with lots of sticker bushes and honeysuckle and a ton more trees. Fred and others have spent a lot of time and money on this course and it's easy to understand that feelings may be hurt when people critisize it.

That is some very interesting analysis Mark. Now please email me a dirty joke so I know thats really you.

Hey Fred,

Any Details on Doubles? I need to sign up!
Do you have a certain layout in mind?
See ya sometime.

Sweet!!  Shouldn't be espically if it's best shot, but 1 round of each isn't a bad idea

Are you having a Masters division for the KY State Doubles?