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Club Memberships for 2013 Options
AdamJ
Posted: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:24:27 AM

Rank: Expert

Joined: 5/22/2005
Posts: 1,239
Location: Nati
Club memberships for 2013 may be changing and we have been discussing all the options and reasons why/how it is now and how we all feel it should be for the future.  Nothing has been decided yet and everything we talk about is basically brainstorming ideas.

Lifetime memberships: All currnet ones will be grandfathered in with options for anyone to cancel, we would like to stop offereing lifetime memberships and develop multi-level membership options.

Non member fee: Gone, all players at CCS events will donate $3, $2 goes to that course's maintence fund and the remaining $1 goes to the general Club Course fund. Could also be a bit more like $5...$3 to the course and $2 to the general fund.

Basically when someone makes a donation to the GCFDA we will honor that donation with a membership.  Level 1 or lets say "Friends of GCFDA" make a 1 time donation of @$10-$20 will recieve a club sticker, and mini.  Level 2 could be "Club Supporter" or "Club member" with a 1 time donation of @$25+ and will recieve a club sticker, mini, and T-shirt, will have voting rights at meetings, and more. Level 3 could be "Club ??????" for those that donate more than @$25+ and will recieve the same as Level 2 with addition of ???.

These are just ideas that many of us have been discussing and such. All ideas and opinions are welcome and needed to find a common ground or solutions to our problems and issues.
   Vending at CCS events = We have been discussing allowing other vendors options to vend at the events and in payouts.  If so this will reduce the amount of funds we raise and since the majority of the Clubs funding is from the CCS events we would need to restructure how we raise money such as memberships and fundraisers,etc. Right now only the officers, members that attend the meteings and the local venders(x3) have been involved in the discussion, so here's your chance to voice your ideas.

More to come just short on time, let the free flow of ideas commence....
Zeigler
Posted: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 8:00:43 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/13/2007
Posts: 107
Adam, I really appreciate all the work that you put into Disc golf in Cincinnati. You are def helping advance the game in our city.

The only 2 cents I would throw in is that if the memberships don't add a financial return to the player, I believe we would only get the regulars/die hards to sign up for memberships. The casual rec player who signed up to avoid the penalty will not "donate" if it doesn't save them the fee.

Just 1 guys opinion.
GStrick
Posted: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:55:03 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/12/2007
Posts: 116
Location: Westside
I'm heading to Omaha this weekend. I was looking around to find some courses to play and came across the Omaha Metro Disc Golf Association. Below is copied from their site:

"It's time to renew your membership or become a new member to the Omaha Metro Disc Golf Association.

Membership fee is $25 or $250 if you would like to become a lifetime member.

The OMDGA has a meeting the last Wednesday of every month at 6pm at the Mama's Pizza on Saddle Creek - this is where we discuss upcoming events, issues, and final decision making (votes) takes place.

The members of the OMDGA are primarily responsible for getting new disc golf in the area as well as maintaining the current courses. We also try to educate and bring new people into the sport.

The OMDGA also has a partnership with several worthy causes:

The Omaha Food Bank
The Hemophilia Association
Boys & Girls Clubs
Susan G Komen foundation
Omaha area schools


some of the BENEFITS of MEMBERSHIP:

$2 discount at Thursday doubles
bag tag for challenges (must be put in at doubles to get the discount)
vote at meetings
$2 discount for purchases from Mr. Bill
discount on future non-sanctioned OMDGA tournaments"



I think it would be a great idea to incorporate bag tags into the GCFDA membership.

AdamJ
Posted: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 7:11:11 AM

Rank: Expert

Joined: 5/22/2005
Posts: 1,239
Location: Nati
I would like to see a Club bag tag for next year, more involvement with local charities and schools.

Some of us have been considering a volunteer rewards program such as discounts on membership for hours served on organized work days, like every 3 or 4 hours of work gets ya a few bucks off your membership, spend enough time volunteering and get your membership for free.
Erik
Posted: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 9:54:21 AM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 212

Wish I could attend the meetings.  The last Monday of the month sucks for me under normal circumstances.  (I am in finance and deal with monthly close cycles.)

I am against the changes to the CCS discount for members.  People have a perceived "value" for becoming a member.  Very few people would join if there is not a benefit in it for them.  I know you would like to think people will just donate, but it will not happen.  Especially with our disc golf demographic here in Cincinnati.  If you want to accept donations for course work or anything else, set up a separate program for that and exclude it from memberships.

GStrick wrote:
Membership fee is $25 or $250 if you would like to become a lifetime member.


The root of the problem is with the pricing model itself.  Not charging enough for membership and or lifetime membership.

Want to do away with the lifetime, fine....  But removing the benefits which are the main reason most people join?  That is just ludicrous.

902boland
Posted: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 2:11:08 PM
Rank: Regular

Joined: 2/22/2011
Posts: 52
AdamJ wrote:
Club memberships for 2013 may be changing and we have been discussing all the options and reasons why/how it is now and how we all feel it should be for the future.  Nothing has been decided yet and everything we talk about is basically brainstorming ideas.

Lifetime memberships: All currnet ones will be grandfathered in with options for anyone to cancel, we would like to stop offereing lifetime memberships and develop multi-level membership options.

Non member fee: Gone, all players at CCS events will donate $3, $2 goes to that course's maintence fund and the remaining $1 goes to the general Club Course fund. Could also be a bit more like $5...$3 to the course and $2 to the general fund.

Basically when someone makes a donation to the GCFDA we will honor that donation with a membership.  Level 1 or lets say "Friends of GCFDA" make a 1 time donation of @$10-$20 will recieve a club sticker, and mini.  Level 2 could be "Club Supporter" or "Club member" with a 1 time donation of @$25+ and will recieve a club sticker, mini, and T-shirt, will have voting rights at meetings, and more. Level 3 could be "Club ??????" for those that donate more than @$25+ and will recieve the same as Level 2 with addition of ???.

These are just ideas that many of us have been discussing and such. All ideas and opinions are welcome and needed to find a common ground or solutions to our problems and issues.






What Zeigler said. Thanks for the hard work you do!! Because you do this for the club, not because you want to benifit yourself or make a quick buck. 

   Vending at CCS events = We have been discussing allowing other vendors options to vend at the events and in payouts.  If so this will reduce the amount of funds we raise and since the majority of the Clubs funding is from the CCS events we would need to restructure how we raise money such as memberships and fundraisers,etc. Right now only the officers, members that attend the meteings and the local venders(x3) have been involved in the discussion, so here's your chance to voice your ideas.

More to come just short on time, let the free flow of ideas commence....


what Zeigler said...you do great work to benifit the new and older players. your not selfish nor do you do this to benifit yourself.

my only  "complaint" would be the fact hamilton county parks are forcing insurance. I can see if its football or something....but discgolf? its a money thing and  total political bs for the ones who havent figured that out.

Although it was a good turnout last year at the devou park ccs,  15+ dollars in fees just to play the ccs is kind of a joke.
AdamJ
Posted: Thursday, June 28, 2012 8:19:43 AM

Rank: Expert

Joined: 5/22/2005
Posts: 1,239
Location: Nati
Mike B = correction for ya, not Hamilton co. its Cincinnati Parks and all they require is a general liability  insurance for us and with there names on it, no money is exchanged and they have been waiving all fees for us since I run so many volunteer work days with the Parks and have been nuturing a great relationship with them. We are a sporting event and that requires additoinal coverage from insurers, not so much the Parks but the companies providing the Insurance, BS is with them.

Erik =  Yes, we know you and 1 or two others don't like the meeting change to the last monday of the month, have you thought about how it ended up that way. Since all the other nites we wanted where booked up for the year that was the next best option for the majority, sorry pal but your in the minority here. Keep in mind this could change for next year if other options open up. As a self imployed contractor I am super busy 8 days a week and have to rearrange my schedule every week for this Club and everything going on, If we had more people that cared enough I wouldn't have to do so much, I actually spend an average of 3 to 5 hours a day working on things for you all. All for free in fact I believe this Club has cost me around $12,000 or more per year in time I could or should have been making money working, hence the fact I am broke all the time and way behind financially. but I do it because I care and I don't hold anyone to blame.

Please don't get me wrong on this guys, I love doing what I do for our sport, its just frustrating at times when I see over 100 people around this Club all talking about helping me and others out and then nothing happens, no shows, no calls. Tired of all the excuses and unwillingness to try to make a minor sacrifice of an hour or more to help us all have better, quality courses, events, etc..

Dang it, gotta run, so much more to type, be back later....
Erik
Posted: Thursday, June 28, 2012 10:47:47 AM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 212
Adam, we all know you put in a lot of time in growing the sport, maintaining relationships with parks, and working on courses. No one questions that and everyone is eager to thank you for your help. Not many have the time or are willing to help you with any of it.
You are always looking for more people who “care” about courses. Perhaps the problem is not finding people who care, but focusing on courses where the parks care enough to maintain them. I look at the course in Mason and see a perfectly maintained course up there. It is always clean; fairways are mowed and kept clear. Look at Harbin as they maintain that extremely well too. I never hear of work days at either course, so why are you pushing for so much help at other courses? Even in Hamilton County, how many work days have been needed at Woodland Mound? I just don’t understand on how some courses don’t need a single work day and still look great while others constantly need help.

As for the meeting times/dates. To clarify, 2 – 3 NON-OFFICER club members who previously attended meetings on a regular basis have expressed the new meeting does not work for them. If in fact we are the minority, how many other NON-OFFICER really wanted this change and are showing up to the meetings?
It is complete BS that you guys held a meeting out on the far side of town and make this decision to change the meeting times. It was over an hour drive for me to get out there. Too many changes have been rushed into and then you try to BS excuses to justify them. You said it plain and clear…. “Since all the other nites we wanted were booked.” We, meaning the officers of the club? Why not put it to vote on the forums or another means and see what the community really wants? You are making more changes to fit officer’s needs and then complain about why the rest of the members can’t accommodate them.
These kind of actions do more harm than good and further push people away from wanting to attend the mettings.
DanH
Posted: Thursday, June 28, 2012 9:04:55 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 4/4/2006
Posts: 515
Location: Lebanon, OH
If I understand the pricing model, the club will now get money from every player at each CCS versus collecting member fees, then discounting those members at a CCS. I think this makes sense. The CCS fee can be tweaked to make the same amount of money or more. Why try to create a bunch of incentives for membership? The club needs members that WANT to contribute/donate. If we lose the members that were only joining to get discounts, so what?



Troy
Posted: Friday, June 29, 2012 5:36:27 AM
Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 9/20/2009
Posts: 448
Location: Amelia, Ohio
I am guilty. I have been to Goshen 1 time and worked maybe a total of 45 minutes. I have told Adam several times that I was going out and never made it and I want to appologize to him on the forum. I have great respect for his love of the sport and I don't mean just playing the game. Thanks to all who have helped Adam and Drew and I WILL be out sometime in the near future to help.
AdamJ
Posted: Sunday, July 01, 2012 9:50:06 AM

Rank: Expert

Joined: 5/22/2005
Posts: 1,239
Location: Nati
Since the Club began they have tried every possible way to conduct meetings from at the CCS events and tournaments which we do give updates on things but no way could we spend 2 hours discussing topics when others just want to play, we did them at members houses and took turns, we did them at Parks and Courses at various times, we did them at local business's spread throughout our area while rotating around so everyone had a chance to have one close to them. After several meetings and discussions we the Officers, who have the right to decide where and when, picked 1 central location, changed to monthly due to increased projects etc., and took the next best date from what was available. Yes I know this will not work for everyone and we will see if next years schedule can be better. All in all it boils down to basically this; those that care enough will show up, those that don't will not. Yes I know your schedule won't allow you to attend and I will do what I can to help you. If anyone doesn't agree with our decisions they can simply not vote for us next year, keep in mind that we where the only ones who ran for office so if we get voted out who will take our place?

I started the Course Pro Program years ago in an attempt to get locals involved with their home course and basically do what I do for Mt.Airy. I have had a little success with it and have found Ken D. for Monroe, Jeff W. for Pride, Troy I. for Williamsburg. Banklick has always had Steve Trauger since he works for the Parks and Fred has Idlewild. Anyone can help out with any park anytime but you cannot expect me and only me to take responsibility for 30+ courses. I am focused on the priorities with A) getting Goshen installed and playable,hopefully in time for our CCS, B) Finishing the renovations at Mt.Airy, C) finishing the renovations at Burnet, D) second phase of Tee's and Pins for Lebanon's Harmon Park.

In the past I have run organized work days at Cabin Creek, helped Hank with Hueston woods, Burnet is now playable 9 again. We have done things at Rapid Run, Pride, Williamsburg, Harbin, Oxford, Banklick, Idlewild, Airy, Burnet, Gulley, Turtlecreek, and more. Places like Mason, which we have never been involved with to my knowledge, and that are in really good shape and maintained well by their parks may not require much of our help but as always the more we help the better they can be. Keeping in mind that many members and nonmembers help out each day by picking up trash and fallen limbs and stuff as they play. My main concern is when we need help at organized work days because we have larger projects that require more hands on deck and since 2009 our volunteer numbers have taken a drastic fall in numbers.

Well I'm feeling better since I was battling a slight fever since Friday and need to get organized and head out to goshen. will have more info later.
AdamJ
Posted: Sunday, July 01, 2012 9:57:02 AM

Rank: Expert

Joined: 5/22/2005
Posts: 1,239
Location: Nati
Oh yah I forgot to mention that Hamilton County Parks require everyone to attend a volunteer training session before they do any volunteer work and it can only be done through them and their volunteer events but I plan on meeting with them when I can do figure out other options for us and focusing our efforts on the courses, plus the Winton Woods redesign is still in the works, just taking forever. I hope to persuade them to expand whitewater to 18 and fix up Embschoff as well, plus a possible redesign/expansion of Woodland Mound. I am only 1 man trying to do the best I can and hopefully inspire others to follow. The more we all help, even just a little bit, makes it easier for all and we can accomplish so much more.
Erik
Posted: Monday, July 02, 2012 12:17:22 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 212

Adam, let’s get back on the subject of the GCFDA memberships and money for course improvements.  I completely agree with the end result of what you are trying to do here.  The end goal is higher entry fees for club events to cover course maintenance and renovations.  I hate price increases more than anyone else, but I also understand they are necessary to function and maintain operation.

 

If you feel the club needs to get more money for course maintenance, add a separate fee to the CCS or other club events, but keep the discount.

 

 An example would be:

 

$30 Open, $15 Rec, $20 All other divisions. ($5 increase to this year’s  entry fees to cover insurance and price increases)

Additional Fees : $3 non-GCFDA member fee, $3 non-Cincy volunteer fee, $2 Ace fund.

 

With this model, people who are too busy to help or only want to play can donate money by playing.  People who enjoy working on the courses or want to avoid the $3 non-volunteer fee can work a predetermined amount to become a Cincy Volunteer status.

 

By doing this people would still get a perceived value in the discounts. 

 

Let’s compare this to the PDGA.  Many people join the PDGA every year.  Why?  I know I am motivated to join by all the non member fees to sign up for tournaments…  Sure there are other perks, but that discounts is the main one.

Now, how would you feel if you had a lifetime PDGA membership (yes they do offer them…) and they suddenly removed the non member fee from their tournaments?  Would you feel your lifetime membership was “fulfilled?” or would you feel cheated?  I would be pretty upset.

 

Like it or not, the PDGA membership model works. Is it because the pricing is set up differently.   A pro membership for the PDGA is $75 per year.  A lifetime membership is $2000!  So after 26 years the membership would have paid for itself.

 

As stated before in many meetings, perhaps the club needs to raise the price of the lifetime membership.  Right now it is a bargain by at $52.  After 4 years the membership pays for itself!  If it was on the same 26 year payoff as the PDGA a lifetime membership would cost about $300!

Madmike
Posted: Monday, July 02, 2012 2:03:13 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 2/4/2009
Posts: 400
See the thing about that Erik is your taxing players to place local series events. The Open division is already struggling as is. And I know as well as most others that charging more for a pro to play and not get the payout increases the odds that that many more wont show up! One of the reasons why most people show up for the local CCS is the cheap entry fees!! IMO I think raising it that much more will hurt turnouts in an already economically impacted city!
AdamJ
Posted: Monday, July 02, 2012 6:09:35 PM

Rank: Expert

Joined: 5/22/2005
Posts: 1,239
Location: Nati
I would like to see our base entry's of $25/$15/$10 stay the same but any "Fee's/Donations" be taken from that and then payouts from the remainder.
Erik
Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 1:01:00 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 212

No doubt Mike.

It sad how the pricing increase came to be on the $25/$15/$10.  The majority of people were against an overall price increase.  Only 4 people wanted an increase and 6 people against (3rec and 3 advanced/open players).  To get their agenda to pass they secretly split it up to turn everyone against eachother…

The first vote was taken on:

 “should we increase the cost of Rec entry to $10” The 4 people in favor of increasing costs across the board voted yes, then the 3 advanced/ open voted yes thinking that having rec the same price as advanced might promot people to move up and quit bagging… and the 3 Rec players voted no…

THEN they announced there would be another vote.

The second vote was taken on “Should we increase the cost of Advanced?”  The 4 people in favor of increasing costs across the board voted yes, then the 3 Rec voted yes thinking rec should be cheaper than the other divisions, and the 3 advanced open players voted no.

So in the end, a 6 to 4 majority against the price increase turned against each other to increase the costs on a 7/3 majority going the other way.  Afterwards, the 6 wondered  WTF happened.  Had we known we were voting on all the issues we would have stuck together and opposed the increase together.  Pretty deceitful and f@cked up when you think about it.

In any case, I am solely pointing out that eliminating the discounts and club benefits for members will hurt membership and is a bad idea.  Obviously if they decide to increase costs to the CCS, not provide a discount, or provide smaller payouts the turnout will also be less.

For the record, let it be known I am against:

1)     Pricing increases - The low cost of entry to the CCS provided an alternative to the expensive PDGA events.

2)     Insurance – I still feel waivers are a better way to go.  Insurance companies always say you are liable, even if an attorney can write up a bulletproof waiver for you.

3)     Reducing club discounts – As said above, people need to see it as benefit or they will not join.

4)     Meeting on the last Monday of the month – BS decision decided by the few, for the few.

discndat
Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 1:24:21 PM

Rank: Expert

Joined: 3/1/2003
Posts: 1,549
Deceitful indeed! That was so funnylaugh  
DiscHead
Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 3:02:48 PM

Rank: Regular

Joined: 3/3/2006
Posts: 79
Location: nky
Maybe if they call it a "tax increase" instead of a "fee increase" then it'll all be constitutional! lol
902boland
Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 4:25:57 PM
Rank: Regular

Joined: 2/22/2011
Posts: 52
Fees being raised is fine by me...because and ONLY because the RIGHT people are taking the extra income and adding it to course improvements. Again, to me that is great! my only "complaint" again is the lame insurance. I don't remember the exact amount of fees to play the Devou CCS last year but it was something along the lines of 15 dollars just in fees alone to play the CCS at Devou park last year. PDGA...I can swing that...your playing with the big boys. But a simple CCS? nottas. Glad I'm not on the GCFDA board. I would of told the Hamilton County parks or what greedy mastermind to shove it. The CCS is to introduce new players to the sport. You start hacking fees for this and that, well you know...what do you expect?

discndat
Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 6:17:01 PM

Rank: Expert

Joined: 3/1/2003
Posts: 1,549
One of the reasons for having the CCS at Devou last year was an effort to show the Parks Dept that disc golf would be a good addition to their park. The club and local disc golfers have been trying to get a course in there for years with no success, but we do keep trying. And it was a PDGA tourney.  But if you weren't a PDGA member it did cost you more. I looked at it as a fee to play a course that I didn't really get  to play on a regular basis and it was a sanctioned PDGA - actually my only one in the last couple of years.

Also, many parks around the country are starting to require insurance. The club is doing what it can to deal with this. Unfortunately it may require an increase in fees. Columbus now has all their tourneys sanctioned as C-Tiers because their Parks required the insurance. It seems to be a sign of the times.
Old Bassman
Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 6:34:15 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/3/2010
Posts: 121
Dan is correct. Devou was a PDGA event.

This year Rapid Run and Mt Airy will both be PDGA events.
The Cibcinnati Parks Dept requested insurance on these events. The cheapest way to do that is to sanction the event.
The city is not getting the extra money, so there is no greedy mastermind involved just a park dept wanting insurance to be applied to the event.
AdamJ
Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 8:23:15 PM

Rank: Expert

Joined: 5/22/2005
Posts: 1,239
Location: Nati
Maybe now more people will attend the meetings and get involved with what is going on, I am getting tired of this blame game crap because We the people that attend the meetings have to make these decisions and then get ridiculed of the outcome.

CCS entry increases where a decade over due. Our past year of CCS events with the increase went real well and without any complaints we still had good turnouts.

Erik..I like how we secretly voted right in front of everyone without any pre-planning to raise entry's,lol You crack me up sometimes.
Tell ya what I will gladly step down as Vice President and since you where the only one to run against me before(not this past vote but the year before that) and you can take it over and see what happens.

Don't let greed decide where this club goes, everything we raise goes back into our courses and covers costs of running all these events.
And guess what....costs are increasing.
Erik
Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 9:11:38 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 212
AdamJ wrote:
Maybe now more people will attend the meetings and get involved with what is going on, I am getting tired of this blame game crap because We the people that attend the meetings have to make these decisions and then get ridiculed of the outcome. CCS entry increases where a decade over due. Our past year of CCS events with the increase went real well and without any complaints we still had good turnouts. Erik..I like how we secretly voted right in front of everyone without any pre-planning to raise entry's,lol You crack me up sometimes. Tell ya what I will gladly step down as Vice President and since you where the only one to run against me before(not this past vote but the year before that) and you can take it over and see what happens. Don't let greed decide where this club goes, everything we raise goes back into our courses and covers costs of running all these events. And guess what....costs are increasing.


What happened right in front of me was stagered issues that were not anounced ahead of time (sercretly) to get your end result.  Voting on each separate issue indirectly increased the prices of everything which was against popular opinion.
mikekem
Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:36:39 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 2/16/2008
Posts: 400
Location: Lebanon
Can I make an observation? A friend and I were discussing this today and the topic came up. Erik I don't know you outside of the message board, I'm not sure if we've ever met. I have no opinion of you one way or the other. However, I do notice you seem to be a contrarian on the board here. What ever comes up, you are most often on the other side of the the fence on. Not only that but you seem to be the only person arguing your positions. Nothing wrong with any of those things and everyone has the right to their opinion but it seems like you like to argue just for the sake of an argument.
Madmike
Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 11:55:29 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 2/4/2009
Posts: 400
<<<<<<This guy loves to argue just for the sake of an argument!!!!, But on another note and this could be a good thing with the parks wanting insurance!!!!! 4-5 out of the 9 CCS events a P.D.G.A Sanctioned event! I think that could be one of the best things to happen! 1. because it brings in out of town players! 2. More players = more revenue for for the club with AM players its a win win situation. I played a Columbus event this winter and played Open it was sanctioned and still didnt break the bank when it came to entry fees PLUS even with 3 inches of snow and ice on the ground they still pulled over 50 players.
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