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August 13th Meeting Options
NEngle
Posted: Monday, August 06, 2007 6:03:14 PM

Rank: Elite Veteran

Joined: 11/18/2003
Posts: 944
Location: Fairfield, OH
Where is it?
matthew_blakely
Posted: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 12:44:33 PM
Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 2/27/2003
Posts: 495
Keith is hosting it I heard. Where though? how about that wing place on Mall Rd? I'm not sure whether I will be able to make it either way, but what better place than a place to support a sponsor. So where is it going to be Keith?
NEngle
Posted: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 1:03:50 PM

Rank: Elite Veteran

Joined: 11/18/2003
Posts: 944
Location: Fairfield, OH
I'm pretty sure Keith's got the next one. This one's Dumont....
frizgolf
Posted: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 1:09:53 PM
Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 5/17/2003
Posts: 221
Rumor is Silverton Cafe.
NEngle
Posted: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 1:48:27 PM

Rank: Elite Veteran

Joined: 11/18/2003
Posts: 944
Location: Fairfield, OH
I saw that rumor...I'd just like it to be confirmed by our host.
Dizk Golfur
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 5:39:54 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/18/2005
Posts: 68
Hey fellow club members,

I've never been to a meeting but I am a lifetime member (still haven't gotten my free disc yet!) Anyway I would like to add something to the pot. I have heard numerous people complain about payouts and where the money goes and blah, blah, waaah, waaah, blah! Im tired of hearing about all of this stuff. It totally takes away from the pure enjoyment and good competition of the game.

But I have a very simple sollution to the problem: Show people where the money goes and tell them ahead of time what they are going to be playing for before you take anyones money. Say for instance the TD's flier shows what kind of payout system that they are going to use. What's up with keeping it a mystery? Where the heck is Scooby Doo when you need him? Wouldn't that cut down on any whinning or complaining afterward? Or would that cut down on the amount of players that would sign up?

Also if their was something posted at the event itself showing how much money was raised and where it all went, this too would end and any contraversy. I tell people that im playing in the pig and they tell me how bad im getting ripped off and the people who run it are crooks. Im talking about seasoned veterens who play the sport and have played the sport for a very long time are telling me this. That bums me out because I think the pig is one of the coolest and low costing 2 day tournaments around plus I haven't seen any proof as to what they are talking about. I think its BS that this is a continuing problem that can't be resolved?!?

Just like on a math test in school....show you work and end any rumors of cheating!

Anyone else agree? Can this be brought up at the meeting and a vote taken? Or can we take on online vote sent out to all the members?

Show work - yes

Show work - no
Kool Keith
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:13:40 PM
Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 6/28/2005
Posts: 338
Bill -

Pete has posted the payout formulas before - it's quite complicated, but I think the real reason some people get pissed off is they think they know "cost" versus "retail" and they want to know where the difference between the 2 goes.

On the AM side of things, for your $38 dollars you get:
Star Disc - $16 retail
2 color T-Shirt $15 retail
PDGA reporting and Insurance $3 retail (I think)

That's $34 right there, in retail. Plus there is a payout.

In the big scheme of things, the shirt cost us 6-8 dollars a piece, the Star disc maybe 9-11.50 a piece, and the PDGA sanctioning/fees....

Payouts are required to be posted after the first round (presumably since registration is complete) and players can ask any questions. Some players don't understand payout structures/depth of paying spots/and where the difference between retail and cost goes.

I'd guess that if the field was full 2 weeks in advance, Pete would show the numbers to the financials of the Pig. But, the numbers can just be an estimate, since some people don't show/register the day of/change divisions.... Remember, added cash, sponsorship, and other factors sway a payout schedule also.

Essentially, I'm sure that Pete is going to show his work here again, just like he is always asked to, probably within 4 days of the conclusion of the Pig. And the numbers will work out, just like they always do, and some will be happy, and others won't.

I'd love to hear some other experienced TD views on the Pig, and it's payout.

Dizk Golfur
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:49:14 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/18/2005
Posts: 68
That is what I mean, show the actual costs of the shirts and disc's and anything else included. How bout some receipts too? I don't want to hear how much a shirt costs at a store if im not getting it at a store. If a portion of my money is going to help the club above all other costs then I want to know how much. Im all for it. At the same point If I know that the majority of my money is going towards something I don't care about then I would have the choice to decline. Honestly, myself, I just enjoy playing the pig and the competition that comes with it. (except you of course, where there is no competition, only an easy chance at another $20) BURN! LOL

Seriously though, I just experienced the best tourney ever at the deuce or die and it really makes me wonder how the heck did Nick pull off all of those ammenities with the monies/time he had? Knowing that this is our clubs biggest and ONLY tourney that I know of makes me wonder why Nicks example can't be followed? Did he follow the same payout plan as The pig? Or did he invent some magical new tournament science none of us have ever heard of?
DISCfunctional
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:52:54 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/2/2004
Posts: 234
Location: Monroe
I dont care what they make if anything at all. It is a lot of work and I am ALWAYS satisfied with each entry fee I pay. If they dont make something for their time they are either very passionate about the game and, it effects on people or PLUM CRAZY!!


Dizk Golfur
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 7:06:23 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/18/2005
Posts: 68
Who do you mean the club or the volunteers?
DISCfunctional
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 7:38:53 PM

Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/2/2004
Posts: 234
Location: Monroe
The tournament director. The guy that puts it all together. Just becoming a TD requires a little bit of money.(about 25-30 bucks to the PDGA) He goes out on a limb!! He has to pay a lot out of his pocket to get it rolling. I have been to tournaments where there wasnt enought people to cover the cost of the 100 disc minumum required for a custom stamp! WHAT THEN??? Does all the players then chip in the money to cover the cost?? I DOUBT IT. I know NICK was concerned and probably came very close to losing money at the MONROE DEUCE OR DIE. ONLY 20 TEAMS SHOWED...All the food, candy,drinks, ice,fruits, granola..and so on and so on....I just hope all this $$$ stuff would go away!!!!!!!!!!!! Before they get a bad taste in there mouth and they shy away from it for fear of THE BIG EYE WATCHING their everymove. Plus all the extra BULLSH!T paperwork to satisfy a few.

JUST KEEP OUR LOCAL TDS HAPPY!!! THEY ARE DOING A LOT OF STUFF THAT ANYONE OF US ARE ABLE TO DO BUT CHOSE TO SIT BACK AND WATCH...

NOTHING PERSONAL....JUST MY OPINION
Kool Keith
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 7:40:03 PM
Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 6/28/2005
Posts: 338
Bill -

Duece or Die had all the extra stuff like lunch, bottled water, snacks, etc because of generous sponsors like you and me.

For the 2 DoD tournaments, I paid a combined $45 dollars in entry fees. I paid an extra $55 dollars in "sponsorship", sponsoring 2 holes at Monroe, and 1 at Harbin, and also purchasing 2 of the FLX Challenger fundraiser discs. That goes a long way in paying for those "extras". Plus the addition of local business sponsors, yada yada yada....

The vast majority of club members that go to meetings are staunchly against posting any club-level financials to the website, public minutes, or bathroom stall door. The club has various goofy reasons for this, none of which I think have any validity at all, but that's the way the vote, so that's the way it is. You'd want to ask any of your elected officials about that part. And while you are at it, ask them about....... aww screw it. They won't talk anyway.

The difference between retail and cost at these tournaments usually go to stuff like trophies, payouts, and adding cash to the pro purse. I'm not sure that any GCFDA has taken cash for TD services at the Pig in the last 2 years I've been around. I bet if asked, they would give a truthful answer - I've got faith in Pete that he'd have nothing to hide. The club makes money off Pig Stamped discs all year long - we buy in bulk to get the best discounts at the Pig, then we sell at a penny over retail most times (eg MSRP 15.99, we sell for 16 flat) for any club vended (is that a word?) events like CCS tourneys and the Pig.

That's usually where the difference goes - BUT!!!!!!!!! If you break down the numbers, the Pig is always at 100% or over in retail payout to entry in all divisons. This simply wouldn't be possible with bulk rate prices, retail markup, and sliding money from AMs to Pros. It's unfortunate that AM money buys the gas for Pros, but with our current PDGA model, that's the reality.

Is that any better of an explaination? FYI, most TD's offer a "trophy only" option at events where you can abstain from a players pack and payout and choose to receive just a trophy if you win for a deeply discounted entry fee. I don't know if it is an option at the Pig, but if anyone wanted to divert their monies away from the Pro's and still play, this may be an option worth exploring with Pete.
Dizk Golfur
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 7:46:48 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/18/2005
Posts: 68
I thought the Pig was ran by the club? I would imagine after this years deuce or die that there won't be any problem filling up next year. Again I am voicing my opinion cause I have continued to hear the same gripe. (at your doubles last week and at the deuce or die) So if this tourney is ran by OUR club then I want to find a way to promote it so that more people are going to have fun and not so many bad vibes.
Dizk Golfur
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 7:51:54 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/18/2005
Posts: 68
Where's the clubs next meeting?
NEngle
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 7:54:53 PM

Rank: Elite Veteran

Joined: 11/18/2003
Posts: 944
Location: Fairfield, OH
That is the question...
Kool Keith
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:25:08 PM
Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 6/28/2005
Posts: 338
The Pig is run by the club's money, but the TD is Pete Caldwell. If there are any questions to be asked, Pete asks the club and if the club meeting is in session, then the club will cast a vote to steer Pete.

Bill, I think the club could really benefit from your involvement - I'm thisclose from my wits end with club meetings - they have run off a couple of good members simply by the way they talk to the membership at the meetings, and the general lack of focus/discipline at the meetings. In my fraternity, we had an elected official whose sole job it was to keep order at the meetings, ensure parlimentary procedure was followed at all times, and to bounce anyone that disrupted the business at hand. I would F'ing LOVE if you were at our meetings in that capacity, or any capacity really.

There seems to be a real disconnect between the club members at large and the admin of the club right now. We still don't have a confirmed meeting location, just 5 days from the meeting. How do you expect membership to participate if you don't give ample notice of when and where the clubs main business meeting will be?

Hell, I can't complain - the CCS scores are already up!
finnhawc
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2007 6:03:00 AM

Rank: Elite Veteran

Joined: 1/16/2007
Posts: 919
Location: Wyoming
As to the sliding monies to pros bit that is only done to cover the pro PDGA fees($3-$5) in most cases, I believe. Now, where is the meeting?
Dizk Golfur
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2007 10:33:26 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/18/2005
Posts: 68
If there are any official looking sponsorship papers for the pig bring them to the meeting. I am trying to hook up some ammenities.

Starbucks - iced coffee or iced tea
Biggs - Hot dogs and buns
Kroger - Water
Papa Johns - Pizza
Kool Keith
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2007 10:55:04 AM
Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 6/28/2005
Posts: 338
Hey Bill -

I believe Pete has created a sponsorship sheet to help present this oppurtunity to potential sponsors. Talk to Brad Anderson, he already has an "in" with Kroger.
Dizk Golfur
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:16:17 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/18/2005
Posts: 68
I too have an "in" with kroger. where can I dl that sheet?
NEngle
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:17:54 PM

Rank: Elite Veteran

Joined: 11/18/2003
Posts: 944
Location: Fairfield, OH
call pete...
Liz
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:44:14 PM

Rank: Extreme Veteran

Joined: 7/21/2003
Posts: 491
Location: West L.A.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is a sponsorship form this year, there was one when Remington was our major sponsor, I asked for one b/c Shake It Records in Northside had shown interest. I don't think it would be too hard to whip one up, but unfortunately, the pig is just over 2 weeks away. Maybe for next year, we could form a committe early in the spring and work on some sponsorship stuff then.
edge
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:23:19 PM
Rank: Tree Hukker

Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 46
Darren at Shake-it Records is a great guy, everyone should stop by a buy a CD or 2
KevinB
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:41:45 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 270
Location: Bexley, OH
I made a sponsorship sheet and have a few calls out, waiting to hear back.

If anyone wants a copy of the sheet I made, just PM me with your email address and I can email it to you. I am not aware that I can attach things here.

kevin
Dizk Golfur
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:43:01 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/18/2005
Posts: 68
If someone sponsors is it tax deductable? Nick, I don't have Pete's number
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